Why don't we, the fans, just reunite with an open spirit and put all the cards on the table. All the possibilities must be considered, including the minor details. Because in a simple detail is our key. One little fake detail and it unravels the whole thread of the truth.
We must not be afraid of thinking because although it may be our breakdown, it also means our freedom.
And I prefer freedom.
Question 1:
Is there any possibility that the announcement of Jim's death in a night club never happened?
Don't question the validity of my question please, let's go by parts. It's the only way. If we all push to the same side and gather ONLY what is fact, we get there.
You are the experts in Doors/Jim Morrison History. So tell me without a shade of a doubt, before we continue, if there is a possibility that this announcement never took place at all and instead its rumour did.
I'm going back to the start because suddenly the scene of "crime" changed from the house to the outside.
The outside theory is not young, old.
We must go back to the very moment it started in order to judge it as relevant or distractive.
Can anyone answer this question?
Yes I know, the guy who announced it talks about it in a video at youtube.
But I'm here to crush every man's word, first. Then, depending on the answers I decide if we can include it in our facts list.
However, first we have to test every detail until we find the breach.
When we can't trust anyone and the facts remain unproved, there is only one thing we can observe: human behaviour.
Sam Benette says he is telling the truth because he didn't want to carry the burden of Jim's death. Sam Benette is a sensitive guy and John Densmore is a Johnny rook. All the Doors are insensitive rooks, because they don't seem to feel this burden that Sam does.
This "detail" must be proved with certainty, because if it can not be proved then it is not "truth", but a problem.
And the inquiring mind solves problems, doesn't keep them.
To you such investigation might be funny to fuck up.
To me it's sorrow.
Full Version: Is There Any Chance This Information Was Manipulated?
Pam is said to have felt guilty.
WHY?
you don't get it,
and you're not helping either because so far nobody answered my question.
with a clue or a yes, or a no.
but then if it's to fuck up the thread stand back!
you don't know how to make the montage for an investigation!
you have to run down everything, and the start is this detail.
so that you decide if you discard Sam and Alain stories or not.
and test every little detail!
so far the only fact we have to our list of facts is that Pam felt guilty!
you are all dumb!
you talk about going to Paris and break the grave and fuck it all for good!
that's not how you make it!
if you have the money I'll lead you.
first we get to know the people who work in the cemitery;
we have to know the lives of people from guards to the Director and the cleaning staff.
and then we have to know about their families, if there's a daughter, son, grandchildren...
how old they are, etc.
so that we find a way to get in their lives,
then I decide who will carry what task.
and somehow, someway, suddenly we are there: in front of the secret trunk of files.
organized and strategically positioned!
not breaking a grave,
what do you think you would get with that?
absolutely nothing.
(you can also try calling "Chérie" to Carla Bruni, she looks familiar - but we better keep the past out of this)
Now please someone say something?
NO! This is not about "Woman seeking her death"
That would be reducing her life to one tiny piece of her Whole.
Just like that stupid Oliver Stone movie,
do you get it now?
one tiny piece of the WHOLE!
Exactly!
I'M HAPPY THAT NOW YOU REALIZE IT
A COMPLETE RUBBISH!
I'LL GET TO HUMILLIATE HIM AS MUCH!
the question is still on.
WHY?
you don't get it,
and you're not helping either because so far nobody answered my question.
with a clue or a yes, or a no.
but then if it's to fuck up the thread stand back!
you don't know how to make the montage for an investigation!
you have to run down everything, and the start is this detail.
so that you decide if you discard Sam and Alain stories or not.
and test every little detail!
so far the only fact we have to our list of facts is that Pam felt guilty!
you are all dumb!
you talk about going to Paris and break the grave and fuck it all for good!
that's not how you make it!
if you have the money I'll lead you.
first we get to know the people who work in the cemitery;
we have to know the lives of people from guards to the Director and the cleaning staff.
and then we have to know about their families, if there's a daughter, son, grandchildren...
how old they are, etc.
so that we find a way to get in their lives,
then I decide who will carry what task.
and somehow, someway, suddenly we are there: in front of the secret trunk of files.
organized and strategically positioned!
not breaking a grave,
what do you think you would get with that?
absolutely nothing.
(you can also try calling "Chérie" to Carla Bruni, she looks familiar - but we better keep the past out of this)
Now please someone say something?
NO! This is not about "Woman seeking her death"
That would be reducing her life to one tiny piece of her Whole.
Just like that stupid Oliver Stone movie,
do you get it now?
one tiny piece of the WHOLE!
Exactly!
I'M HAPPY THAT NOW YOU REALIZE IT
A COMPLETE RUBBISH!
I'LL GET TO HUMILLIATE HIM AS MUCH!
the question is still on.
Lies are always ill and truth is always healing.
So far nobody has interacted with me providing a clue to my question.
Maybe you think my question is irrelevant, but it's not.
Your silence is also a language.
But why don't you reply?
Is this topic hidden from you somehow?
I wouldn't be surprised because once I was put in a forum which only I could see.
A total abuse.
I have more things to say but what's the point if my question is not being answered?
Hervé Muller wrote a book about the Circus death hypothesis in 1974, is this correct?
He says in an interview that he called Jim's flat in Paris and Ronay answered the phone.
If Jim was found dead at the Circus toilet at 1.30 am, why did Pam take so long to call Alan Ronay?
Where was she?
Have you ever put the hypothesis that what happened in Paris was so tragic that a major cover-up recquired the cumplicity of all?
The fireman who says he saw Jim in the bathroom with his head to the faucet... All he says contradicts Ronay's version of the facts.
Who is lying?
Maybe everybody is.
Where was Pam?
At the Circus?
At a private party?
Sam says that Jim was always collecting drugs for Pam
But Pam didn't need Jim for this. Pam had Jean, who was the big dealer. She didn't need Jim to collect drugs for her.
This means that the drugs Jim bought were for himself - Jim was the one who didn't like Jean and did everything to avoid him.
My question about Jim's death announcement at a night club is relevant.
Either way.
But if you don't think it is then please explain why it isn't.
And why it can't be disbelieved, which is the same to say that it really happened on the same night Jim died.
I haven't read Muller's book. I haven't read anything. But maybe I should.
If you'd like to send me a copy of Herve's book, pm me.
the question is still on.
So far nobody has interacted with me providing a clue to my question.
Maybe you think my question is irrelevant, but it's not.
Your silence is also a language.
But why don't you reply?
Is this topic hidden from you somehow?
I wouldn't be surprised because once I was put in a forum which only I could see.
A total abuse.
I have more things to say but what's the point if my question is not being answered?
Hervé Muller wrote a book about the Circus death hypothesis in 1974, is this correct?
He says in an interview that he called Jim's flat in Paris and Ronay answered the phone.
If Jim was found dead at the Circus toilet at 1.30 am, why did Pam take so long to call Alan Ronay?
Where was she?
Have you ever put the hypothesis that what happened in Paris was so tragic that a major cover-up recquired the cumplicity of all?
The fireman who says he saw Jim in the bathroom with his head to the faucet... All he says contradicts Ronay's version of the facts.
Who is lying?
Maybe everybody is.
Where was Pam?
At the Circus?
At a private party?
Sam says that Jim was always collecting drugs for Pam
But Pam didn't need Jim for this. Pam had Jean, who was the big dealer. She didn't need Jim to collect drugs for her.
This means that the drugs Jim bought were for himself - Jim was the one who didn't like Jean and did everything to avoid him.
My question about Jim's death announcement at a night club is relevant.
Either way.
But if you don't think it is then please explain why it isn't.
And why it can't be disbelieved, which is the same to say that it really happened on the same night Jim died.
I haven't read Muller's book. I haven't read anything. But maybe I should.
If you'd like to send me a copy of Herve's book, pm me.
the question is still on.
QUOTE(waiting for the bullet @ May 10 2008, 02:40 AM) 
Lies are always ill and truth is always healing.
So far nobody has interacted with me providing a clue to my question.
Maybe you think my question is irrelevant, but it's not.
Your silence is also a language.
But why don't you reply?
Is this topic hidden from you somehow?
I wouldn't be surprised because once I was put in a forum which only I could see.
A total abuse.
I have more things to say but what's the point if my question is not being answered?
Hervé Muller wrote a book about the Circus death hypothesis in 1974, is this correct?
He says in an interview that he called Jim's flat in Paris and Ronay answered the phone.
If Jim was found dead at the Circus toilet at 1.30 am, why did Pam take so long to call Alan Ronay?
Where was she?
Have you ever put the hypothesis that what happened in Paris was so tragic that a major cover-up recquired the cumplicity of all?
The fireman who says he saw Jim in the bathroom with his head to the faucet... All he says contradicts Ronay's version of the facts.
Who is lying?
Maybe everybody is.
Where was Pam?
At the Circus?
At a private party?
Sam says that Jim was always collecting drugs for Pam
But Pam didn't need Jim for this. Pam had Jean, who was the big dealer. She didn't need Jim to collect drugs for her.
This means that the drugs Jim bought were for himself - Jim was the one who didn't like Jean and did everything to avoid him.
My question about Jim's death announcement at a night club is relevant.
Either way.
But if you don't think it is then please explain why it isn't.
And why it can't be disbelieved, which is the same to say that it really happened on the same night Jim died.
I haven't read Muller's book. I haven't read anything. But maybe I should.
If you'd like to send me a copy of Herve's book, pm me.
the question is still on.
So far nobody has interacted with me providing a clue to my question.
Maybe you think my question is irrelevant, but it's not.
Your silence is also a language.
But why don't you reply?
Is this topic hidden from you somehow?
I wouldn't be surprised because once I was put in a forum which only I could see.
A total abuse.
I have more things to say but what's the point if my question is not being answered?
Hervé Muller wrote a book about the Circus death hypothesis in 1974, is this correct?
He says in an interview that he called Jim's flat in Paris and Ronay answered the phone.
If Jim was found dead at the Circus toilet at 1.30 am, why did Pam take so long to call Alan Ronay?
Where was she?
Have you ever put the hypothesis that what happened in Paris was so tragic that a major cover-up recquired the cumplicity of all?
The fireman who says he saw Jim in the bathroom with his head to the faucet... All he says contradicts Ronay's version of the facts.
Who is lying?
Maybe everybody is.
Where was Pam?
At the Circus?
At a private party?
Sam says that Jim was always collecting drugs for Pam
But Pam didn't need Jim for this. Pam had Jean, who was the big dealer. She didn't need Jim to collect drugs for her.
This means that the drugs Jim bought were for himself - Jim was the one who didn't like Jean and did everything to avoid him.
My question about Jim's death announcement at a night club is relevant.
Either way.
But if you don't think it is then please explain why it isn't.
And why it can't be disbelieved, which is the same to say that it really happened on the same night Jim died.
I haven't read Muller's book. I haven't read anything. But maybe I should.
If you'd like to send me a copy of Herve's book, pm me.
the question is still on.
We would love to have seen Jim, we would love to have seen him performing live with the Doors and publish more of his writings. He may even have been a big film director... up there along with Francis Ford Coppolla, Martin Scorsese, Quinten Tarantino... but he was not meant to be here. It is a really massive loss, he has been missed for years, decades and will continue to be missed throughout many a generation... there are still 'Doors fans yet to be born. Jim is dead now, sad but it's true. It was his destiny.
"They took him to the apartment and tried to reanimate him with a hot bath"
what?!
a hot bath?
in these kind of situation the water should be cold!
whether this, or an injection of salt to make the heart start beating faster.
a hot bath would kill him!
Hervé Muller also mentions the hot bath.
What kind of shit is this?
look at the wrong you are doing to yourselves, there's karma for this. what would it be like to be born without a talent?
if people spend their lives using another as a crutch to attain success, then next time that same talent will be taken away from them. can you imagine yourselves in a corner of a room watching others play and feeling sorry for yourself for not having a talent such as: painting, writing, playing an instrument?
because talents are supposed to be explored, it's a creative force that shouldn't be wasted. and I would like to ask Ray, Robby and John if they feel they have done their best with their beautiful talents.
I tell you what I would like.
I would like to have a bunch of incredible instrumental albums by The Doors.
but when I look at my cds there's nothing like this. History will never know of the amazing music you could have done after Jim's death. I don't mean to say that it would have lasted until today but at least now I could go through my cds and instead of ELP I would have loved to listen to your great instrumentals.
Ray did Golden Scarab (I'd like to listen, never got the chance) but the band desintegrated.
The band continued for another two years but didn't reinvented themselves as musicians, instead they chose the same kind of song format. And this proved to be a wrong choice. The band should have changed the format of their songs. 3, 4 or 5 minutes songs were not going to work, and they didn't.
Was this intentional?
I don't know but maybe not. The band was sore and hurt. Maybe you didn't know what to do. I want to believe this.
I know the incredible cover-up was all you needed to be eternal celebrities, most respected legends of rock and roll.
But this has a price.
Why did you conceal the truth from the people?
Tell me please it was not because of the money. The implications this cover-up has had on young people is tremendous. I speak for myself. But while I am protected from the most negative consequences of this cover-up, the fans are not.
This is serious. Jim didn't tell you to cover up his death. Jim wanted the people to know about his heart. And when you take away a man's death you take away his dignity. I know, I know. You question if there's any dignity in doing what Jim did but that's not for you to judge.
What I know is that a stupid movie is out there; what I know is that the fans are obsessed with a man who was far from being the big genius they think he was.
You are still in time to set it all free. Be selfish, think of your future. If nothing else can make you reconsider than be selfish and think of your soul.
Because it won't pay. Trust me. It won't pay. Can you imagine yourselves becoming obsessed with Jim Morrison in the same way the fans are today? As absolute outsiders?
Sometimes I wonder what it will be like for Danny. Two times obsessed with the same shit. That's heavy. It will bring tremendous pain. And this time as an outsider, it will be really heavy on a soul. But you can still prevent his spirit from that suffering. By the time this will happen Jim will be the only one who won't be affected anymore. Maybe because he has already gone through all of that.
Nobody wants to help me in this investigation but that's not a problem for me because I was doing this investigation for you; to help you.
I know what happened. And I know that someone is waiting for me to hit target and describe it. You think I don't know that? Maybe people think that something like this would be... you know what. But what would I gain with it?
I tell you: a pressure that's unbearable.
This is why Osho kept shut about his lives. He knew that enlightened people would know who he was. Because it's there in his speech, it's there in his dedication to bring us a new message.
Am I enlightened?
Of course I'm not. I'm a person full of faults and I didn't get the affection (from my parents) that is required to be emotionally balanced. I am far from being enlightened. But I believe I am being initiated. And for me this is progress.
Ray, there's something you said about Jim that I absolutely agree with. You said something like: "Jim wasted his creativity by drinking it away."
I totally agree with you. And now I feel that for the last 8 years I've been doing the same with my creativity by posting in message boards.
What did I want?
Just myself. I want to know myself. I want to exorcize the pain and spit it out. Be new.
I came here to do that. Like you and John did when you wrote your books. You wanted to heal. But you know you have no right to take away a child's mother from him twice. That means our healing stops here, because it just started and it's about aloneness. You just can't go on anymore, and you shouldn't. Once in your life be responsible; you understand?
Why did I do it then?
I did it out of ingenuousness, with an open heart. I came full of shit and I leave full of food.
I was so naive that for sometime I forgot all I know. I forgot the negativity in people's hearts; I forgot the opportunists and the manipulative people. I forgot about the ill-intentioned world we live in. If my beginning can be described in a tarot card then that's the Fool - dancing innocently before the abyss.
There's little to say except for I'm sorry for all the trouble.
what?!
a hot bath?
in these kind of situation the water should be cold!
whether this, or an injection of salt to make the heart start beating faster.
a hot bath would kill him!
Hervé Muller also mentions the hot bath.
What kind of shit is this?
look at the wrong you are doing to yourselves, there's karma for this. what would it be like to be born without a talent?
if people spend their lives using another as a crutch to attain success, then next time that same talent will be taken away from them. can you imagine yourselves in a corner of a room watching others play and feeling sorry for yourself for not having a talent such as: painting, writing, playing an instrument?
because talents are supposed to be explored, it's a creative force that shouldn't be wasted. and I would like to ask Ray, Robby and John if they feel they have done their best with their beautiful talents.
I tell you what I would like.
I would like to have a bunch of incredible instrumental albums by The Doors.
but when I look at my cds there's nothing like this. History will never know of the amazing music you could have done after Jim's death. I don't mean to say that it would have lasted until today but at least now I could go through my cds and instead of ELP I would have loved to listen to your great instrumentals.
Ray did Golden Scarab (I'd like to listen, never got the chance) but the band desintegrated.
The band continued for another two years but didn't reinvented themselves as musicians, instead they chose the same kind of song format. And this proved to be a wrong choice. The band should have changed the format of their songs. 3, 4 or 5 minutes songs were not going to work, and they didn't.
Was this intentional?
I don't know but maybe not. The band was sore and hurt. Maybe you didn't know what to do. I want to believe this.
I know the incredible cover-up was all you needed to be eternal celebrities, most respected legends of rock and roll.
But this has a price.
Why did you conceal the truth from the people?
Tell me please it was not because of the money. The implications this cover-up has had on young people is tremendous. I speak for myself. But while I am protected from the most negative consequences of this cover-up, the fans are not.
This is serious. Jim didn't tell you to cover up his death. Jim wanted the people to know about his heart. And when you take away a man's death you take away his dignity. I know, I know. You question if there's any dignity in doing what Jim did but that's not for you to judge.
What I know is that a stupid movie is out there; what I know is that the fans are obsessed with a man who was far from being the big genius they think he was.
You are still in time to set it all free. Be selfish, think of your future. If nothing else can make you reconsider than be selfish and think of your soul.
Because it won't pay. Trust me. It won't pay. Can you imagine yourselves becoming obsessed with Jim Morrison in the same way the fans are today? As absolute outsiders?
Sometimes I wonder what it will be like for Danny. Two times obsessed with the same shit. That's heavy. It will bring tremendous pain. And this time as an outsider, it will be really heavy on a soul. But you can still prevent his spirit from that suffering. By the time this will happen Jim will be the only one who won't be affected anymore. Maybe because he has already gone through all of that.
Nobody wants to help me in this investigation but that's not a problem for me because I was doing this investigation for you; to help you.
I know what happened. And I know that someone is waiting for me to hit target and describe it. You think I don't know that? Maybe people think that something like this would be... you know what. But what would I gain with it?
I tell you: a pressure that's unbearable.
This is why Osho kept shut about his lives. He knew that enlightened people would know who he was. Because it's there in his speech, it's there in his dedication to bring us a new message.
Am I enlightened?
Of course I'm not. I'm a person full of faults and I didn't get the affection (from my parents) that is required to be emotionally balanced. I am far from being enlightened. But I believe I am being initiated. And for me this is progress.
Ray, there's something you said about Jim that I absolutely agree with. You said something like: "Jim wasted his creativity by drinking it away."
I totally agree with you. And now I feel that for the last 8 years I've been doing the same with my creativity by posting in message boards.
What did I want?
Just myself. I want to know myself. I want to exorcize the pain and spit it out. Be new.
I came here to do that. Like you and John did when you wrote your books. You wanted to heal. But you know you have no right to take away a child's mother from him twice. That means our healing stops here, because it just started and it's about aloneness. You just can't go on anymore, and you shouldn't. Once in your life be responsible; you understand?
Why did I do it then?
I did it out of ingenuousness, with an open heart. I came full of shit and I leave full of food.
I was so naive that for sometime I forgot all I know. I forgot the negativity in people's hearts; I forgot the opportunists and the manipulative people. I forgot about the ill-intentioned world we live in. If my beginning can be described in a tarot card then that's the Fool - dancing innocently before the abyss.
There's little to say except for I'm sorry for all the trouble.
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